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Xenon Timing Light

April 27, 2018, 3:25 pm
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That explains why it’s a bit iffy when I measure it.

My local has 2, but they don’t tell you much.
1 - Pri-500Ω 3 wire and Sec-8Ω 2 wire
https://www.jaycar.com.au/500-ohm-centre-tapped-8-ohm-miniature-output-transformer/p/MM2530
2 - Pri-1000Ω 3 wire and Sec-8Ω 2 wire
https://www.jaycar.com.au/1k-ohm-centre-tapped-8-ohm-output-transformer/p/MM2532
There is a 3K to 3K, but that’s not going to help

I found a 300V on Ebay, so I guess i have to bit the bullet and pay the $6 - the 10KV was only $1.30 -

Unless I’m using the wrong words, it’s hard to find anything on something cheap like Ebay.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 28, 2018, 11:45 am
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As @sublimeartistry pointed out resistance is a poor indicator of turns ratio because of wire size, but inductance of each winding should be at least in the ball park for turns ratio and from there measuring with the desired signal at the frequency that you want to use is the real world test that works.

This one is a possibility, it looks to be about a 62/1 turns ratio which means you would get 375V out with 6V in from an oscillator drive circuit (I’m not sure what the circuit you have will do, it appears to be different than just the turns ratio, as it says it uses self inductance which I don’t know how to calculate). Primary winding insulation may also be an issue as I expect it is probably 100V as most of the transistor ones seem to be and 400V may cause arc over in the primary as the insulation fails. As you note finding transformers is getting more and more difficult, I guess they aren’t popular because of cost and the various switching regulators now available, but it is a pain when you need one.

You are likely to find that this doesn’t generate enough current to charge the capacitors in any reasonable time which may be an issue in this application. For a camera a 30 second recharge time isn’t an issue because you typically don’t take photos that fast, for a strobe I expect (but don’t know for sure) you need a quicker recharge cycle to be ready to flash at each trigger. If you can’t, you may get timing variation depending on how many triggers occur between recharges (which since the two are unrelated will vary with time). Given that as far as I can see this project is aimed at possibly non electronics people, hand built strobe lights present a danger. As noted earlier a charged 400V cap can present a life threatening danger if you aren’t used to dealing with them (such as shorting them out with a clip lead before working near them to avoid shocks) which may be a liability issue. If you can get enough brightness to be usable, I think the LED solution is more likely to be more cost effective with much less danger.
Peter

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Xenon Timing Light

April 28, 2018, 2:23 pm
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Even at 55V it makes a pretty big zap, so 300V is a lot. I might not release this one to the Speeduino forum if I get it working because parts aren’t easy to find, but I still have to make a compact one that I’m going to mount on the car and try to film the ignition advance curve as I drive around because I want to get an idea of what the factory ECU ignition curve looks like.

EDIT - I just realise it might not work because the energy released from the flash interferes with cameras.

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Micro sdCard Part

April 28, 2018, 2:27 pm
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In another link, I posted info on the sdCard Adapter I use (senmod sdhc adapter). I’ve used them enough now that I decided to make a ‘Part’ for it.

Info:
• I like big pads so, the pads are for my preference and my cause you DRC errors (depending upon your DRC settings). My DRC settings are for 0.010 inch Keepout to avoid error. (FYI - you can ignore these errors and export the gerbers).

• I prefer to lay the adapter parallel with the PCB using a 90º Pin Header. Therefore, in the PCB layout, the Pin’s are reversed and enclosed in a dashed box. The Breadboard and Schematic views are as normal. As there are no internal connections, you can ignore pin labels and hook-up as you prefer. Of course, you don’t need to lay it parallel to PCB - your preference…

• I also prefer larger text so the pin#'s are readable.

16 PM
Screen Shot 2018-04-28 at 2.03.16 PM.png948x500 122 KB

my_sdCard.fzpz (10.5 KB)

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Xenon Timing Light

April 28, 2018, 2:30 pm
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A metal box (grounded) around the flash may help with that if the energy is being radiated.

Peter

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Micro sdCard Part

April 28, 2018, 2:40 pm
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Looks good other than the pins in schematic aren’t on the .1 grid which most of the other parts are. It will work fine as is but the connecting lines to other parts will be bent a bit in schematic.

Peter

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Micro sdCard Part

April 28, 2018, 3:04 pm
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Thanks. That’s weird!! I figured out what happened… Inkscape changed the units from inch to px when I re-opened the file and the dim’s shifted… I reset them to be 0.1". It looks correct in the schematic view now.

my_sdCard.fzpz (10.4 KB)

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Micro sdCard Part

April 28, 2018, 4:47 pm
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Yep that looks to have gotten it. I’ve been bitten by that more than once. When you save the file (and sometimes when you change between drawing elements I think) Inkscape changes back to px as the units. I usually catch it when I move something with the tool bar and it doesn’t move the correct distance.

Peter

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Xenon Timing Light

April 28, 2018, 10:58 pm
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Should be able to do a metal plate.

I just realised I need an rpm display in the vid, ouch!

Looks like the 240V to 5V wall wart trans isn’t any good.
It’s ferrite core and has 3 separate windings :-
1 - 0.3 ohm 0.05mH
2 - 1 ohm 0.6mH
3 - 9.4 ohm 4.7mH
I’ve got lots transformers out of a ATX PS , but now I’m thinking anything with a ferrite core isn’t going to work.

I don’t see the average Joe building this using simple Ebay/Ali or from their local elec shop, because parts are a real PITA to get. Unless you want to pay high prices at the big wholesalers - it’s cheaper buying the timing light - , no high voltage caps - 100V max -, only 1 horseshoe Xenon, and 1 maybe 2 transformers. I think the death of analogue is killing this. :cry:

Looks like LED is going to be the only option, so I’ll have to sort that out properly.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 9:03 am
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When I was young and built hot rods the only timing light we had was one that ran the Xenon bulb directly off of the coil voltage and went inline with the plug wire (no induction coil).

I tried to find some info for you but the internet has very little info about these old things. I did manage to find a single picture of one.

I do believe they cause a little reduction in the spark on #1 but it is minor and should easily be accounted for. One of these should be easy to make. Connect the bulb between your distributor and your plug and you are done.

EDIT: looks like you can still get them in a cheap tune up kit https://www.motomobil.com/engine-tester-kit-incl-strobe-timing-light-dwell-angle-teste,3237,49610130-1.html

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 3:36 pm
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Actually an in-line timing light was my first too, and yes it’s not as bright as my next cheapest clamped TL.

I reversed my el-cheapo, but it’s too expensive to build compared to an Ebay one.
From what I read EQUUS is the cheapest.

IMG_0544
IMG_0544.JPG4000x3000 1.01 MB

I was looking at the top left “a” circuit to join to my 300V PS.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 4:30 pm
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I may have a source of cheap circuits you could use for powering a timing light. Electroluminescent wire inverters. They run around 100vac so would require a rectifier.


or

or

Also with your original circuit you could make a voltage doubler with a few diodes and caps to hopefully get up to your xenon ignition voltage.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 4:44 pm
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In this instructable about a diy mains powered timing light he uses a voltage doubler followed by the circuit you last posted. It looks like you wouldn’t even have to rectify the output from an EL wire inverter to make it.
LARGE

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 6:56 pm
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I haven’t ever worked with xenon tubes so I decided to do a little research on them and came across this page http://donklipstein.com/xeguide.html it has a lot of information on working with xenon flash tubes. What I learnt during my read was to achieve quick bright flashes like are required on a timing light you may need anything from 200v to 1.6kv depending on your tube size and flash duration. Also you would likely want the smallest length/diameter tube you can get your hands on to reduce the required voltage.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 8:03 pm
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I didn’t know that EL LED wire was high voltage.

I was looking at those mains voltage doubler TLs, but it just seams too dangerous and not portable.

Things are getting dangerous now because my 400V PS arrived. :slight_smile:

My cheap 9 LED torch with a direction reflector also got here, so just waiting for the COB before I test Peter’s LED TL. I’m interested if the 555 adds lag to the trigger, and I need a lot of light to direct it at the engines accurate timing marks because you can’t get close enough for a weak light.

I remember reading a timing light test in a car mag years ago - maybe a decade - and pretty much all had lag. From memory the cheaper the more lag, but even the expensive SnapOn had 1º lag.

EDIT - Holly carp, 10V in 655V out!.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 8:50 pm
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If you want another option for really cheap HV power supply you could look at CCFL inverters. You can get ones designed for CCFL headlight rings designed to work off 12v. That say 5-8ma output at 900v and really cheap at $3us with shipping. You could use it as in input to a common transformer and step it down. A standard 110v > 48v would give you 900v > 360v 12.5-20ma


They also come in super tiny sizes for laptop screens that would be easy to fit inside a timing gun.

My guess would be yes it does. I think this is why they use Xenon bulbs as the metal around the bulb is used to trigger the existing charge to emit light and is done without any circuity adding hysteresis. The charge from the plug wire pushes the voltage in the tube above its ignition voltage and viola a burst of light. At least in the simpler schematic. In the fancier one you have a 1-4kv trigger transformer and added circuitry that would likely add some lag.

I wonder what kind of amperage you get at that voltage.

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Xenon Timing Light

April 29, 2018, 11:31 pm
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The CCFL for $4 looks promising if you can turn it down internally without a transformer.

The other LED circuit didn’t seam to have lag when compared to my Xenon light - the leading mark looked correct if you ignore the artifacts -, so it would be interesting what this one does on the actual graduated engine marker.

This guy tests the 390V PS.

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Multiple PCB on 1 gerber file

April 30, 2018, 4:09 pm
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My pcb is 20x22mm. The quote price from manufacture is the same upto 50x50mm. I am finding the way to make multiple pcbs on one gerber file. This case can have 4 pcs on 50x50 order and when it arrives I will cut it by myself to four pieces.

The problem is how can I generate 4 PCBs in one Gerber file.

Somsak

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Multiple PCB on 1 gerber file

April 30, 2018, 4:20 pm
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See the link attached. The feature is not really documented. But if you have some time to play around you should be able to produce a v-cut style panel that can easily be manufactured by most pcb manufacturers.

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Multiple PCB on 1 gerber file

April 30, 2018, 4:49 pm
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Thank. I change my mind. I open PCB view and copy all and paste them for another 3 copies side by side. Then, expand the PCB board to cover all four. Can I draw a rectangle line around my previous design for easy cutting guideline?

Somsak

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